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Forum:Regarding Black(Digimon)...
Hello. I'm new here, but I believe I can be of use. I'd like to point out an error I have noticed on the wiki: the confusion of Black(Digimon) with (Digimon) (Black). I'll explain what I mean. Digimon that have the same name as the original, just with (Black) following it, are technically the same Digimon; they have the same moves and characteristics, the Type has just changed to Virus. They should go in the original article, like the orange Growlmon family variants, for instance. Black(Digimon), however, only appear as secret characters in the video games (excepting BlackWarGreymon), and are completely different Digimon from the original with their own movesets and, most tellingly, the word 'black' (ブラック) in their Japanese names. An example of this being confused on the wiki: we have an article called BlackAgumon, but it's actually covering Agumon (Black). There is an actual BlackAgumon, but it appears as a secret character in Rumble Arena 2. The complete list of Black(Digimon) is as follows: * BlackAgumon, BlackGreymon, BlackGabumon, BlackGarurumon, BlackMetalGarurumon, BlackGuilmon, and BlackGrowlmon all first appeared in Rumble Arena 2. * Another BlackAgumon, this one designed after the Savers Agumon, showed up in Digimon World Data Squad. * BlackWarGreymon, of course, first appeared in the anime. Other useful notes on the subject: * The first card to feature a black-colored WarGreymon was not in fact of BlackWarGreymon but of a WarGreymon (Black). You can tell this, again, because it has the same attacks as a normal one. Hope this information is useful, Flame Deity 03:19, June 12, 2010 (UTC) This is a reposting of the original discussion we had over this issue: I found those templates a little unwieldy in the end. By my check, the Digimon Story games actually did use the name BlackAgumon not Agumon (Black) like it did for a lot of things, while there's no more instances of WarGreymon (Black) any longer, which were limited to cards for the most part except Digimon Battle Spirit, who uses Agumon (Black) (or just Agumon) so it's implied to use WarGreymon (Black) not BlackWarGreymon. Digimon Rumble Arena 2's official Japanese website uses the Black- names for all the Digimon inside, which is why they got species articles, and Digimon World 3 had actual Black- Digimon like BlackSeraphimon and BlackImperialdramon as far as I found. Digimon Championship used BlackRapidmon and BlackWarGreymon like the cards, but the rest of them were like MetalGarurumon (Black). Actually, it was closer to MetalGarurumon (Virus), but basically I worked along those lines for now. Hm, now that I think about it, should all those (Black) be (Virus)? That might work better actually. Lanate (talk) 23:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC) Okay, so let me sort this out: Digimon Rumble Arena: * BlackAgumon * BlackGreymon * BlackWarGreymon * BlackGabumon * BlackGarurumon * BlackMetalGarurumon * BlackGuilmon * BlackGrowlmon * ChaosGallantmon The Agumon and Gabumon lines are said to be virus-evolved versions of their normal forms, so I think it's the same situation we had for WarGreymon (Black) and BlackWarGreymon. Maybe we could note the name change in the article? Digimon Championship was faithful to the cards, which works. Digimon World 3 has a Seraphimon (Black) as a BlackSeraphimon and Imperialdramon (Black) as BlackImperialdramon. Personally, I would include BlackSeraphimon and ShadowSeraphimon together, since they are supposed to have the same name in the original material, and then cover the differences within the section. However, they are pretty different in nature, and we differentiate between the two Deathmon's, so...I don't know. Digimon Story created a new Digimon named BlackAgumon. Wait, can you get that BlackAgumon in Story? Is it's profile about it being a virus version, does it have the same attacks? The Digimon Channel stuff seems to identify Digimon by colors, so if we have an official source using the (Black) name, then we should go with that. If we don't, (Virus) should be preferable, in my opinion. Personally, I don't want to go the route of DMA, where every minor design change results in a new article, stranding all the info. I think that as long as the Digimon aren't clearly differentiated in cases like this, we should assume it's just an alternate name - so BlackGabumon, Gabumon (Black), and Gabumon (Virus) would be the same thing (I think - did Rumble Arena actually give them unique attacks, etc.?)Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 06:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC) :Was it really a name change? Because recent cards still have Agumon (Black), don't they? :The only one I'm not 100% sure of is Digimon World 3 and their Blacks. I know in English they're Black, but I thought that the originals also have the Black- prefix. :I'm still holding out on my original intent of keeping names separate. I might concede to merging ShadowSeraphimon and BlackSeraphimon on the same page... say, like what was done with Antylamon, but I stand by my original reasoning; different names, different articles. Lanate (talk) 07:17, 12 March 2009 (UTC) ::But it is separate. I made sure to double check what instances were "WarGreymon (Black/Virus)" and what instances were "BlackWarGreymon". The only appearance that WarGreymon (Black) ever made was in Digimon Battle Spirit, where it digivolved from Agumon (Black), though it is debatable as to whether it was WarGreymon (Black) or BlackWarGreymon. ::Do we want to separate BlackWarGreymon from WarGreymon's article, then?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 07:22, 12 March 2009 (UTC) ::Arrgh, these Black- digimon are annoying. ::Part of me is like, well, I guess we could count them as name changes. And part of me stands firm on the differentiation made between the Black prefix and the (Black). I guess it comes down to: should we consider them the same Digimon or not? I don't, though I might be swayed considering images, but if you do, we can have someone else vote on the issue and then go whichever way they say. ::And there's a part of me that's stubborn because I've basically been scrounging around the net for the Japanese names to find those differences in the first place. =P Lanate (talk) 07:53, 12 March 2009 (UTC) How about this: Merge any instances I split onto the separate article (BlackAgumon/BlackGabumon) and henceforth ignore and difference between Black- and (Black/Virus)? It's kinda pissing me off and might be more annoying than it's worth. Lanate (talk) 00:10, 19 March 2009 (UTC) Except for when it's more than a recolor, like Seraphimon, I think we can run with that - if either the English or the Japanese calls it "Black-", we split it and just have the exact situation explained in the header. However, I wouldn't do this with all Virus and other color Digimon - Black ones are the only ones who fiddle with the system like this, and I think it should be safe to only make an exception in this case.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 01:39, 19 March 2009 (UTC) Our conclusion? We basically decided that they were depicting the same Digimon. We debated over the BlackWarGreymon vs. WarGreymon (Black) issue and ended up in a similar situation, especially after, for us, seeing a WarGreymon (Black) image being used for a BlackWarGreymon card. There are little to no visual differences between a viral Greymon and BlackGreymon, and the official profiles state that the Black Digimon from Rumble Arena 2 are viral versions of the originals. I actually have been searching for an English copy of Rumble Arena 2 for evidence, but that's our official stance at the moment. As with our other stances, this is open to debate and reasonings. We realize that the names are different between (Digimon) (Black) and Black(Digimon), so the only thing left is movesets. Are the movesets that different? For the record, the Battle Spirit site lists the Agumon (Black) as BlackAgumon. Lanate (talk) 04:29, June 12, 2010 (UTC) * Battle Spirit = Digimon World Data Squad. I pointed that out already. And sorry, I didn't know this had already been discussed. Flame Deity 04:50, June 12, 2010 (UTC) :I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "Battle Spirit = Digimon World Data Squad". :I was referring to the Dimps official Digimon Tamers: Battle Spirit Ver. 1.5 site which equates Agumon (Black) with BlackAgumon. Lanate (talk) 05:02, June 12, 2010 (UTC) ** Oh, sorry. Got them confused. Flame Deity 05:13, June 12, 2010 (UTC)